tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post1289978400669013846..comments2024-02-25T20:07:56.114-06:00Comments on Mr. Verb: "a significant proportion of native English speakers are unable to understand some basic sentences"Mr. Verbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04048931596146402872noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-65346255076023313072010-08-04T21:15:08.226-05:002010-08-04T21:15:08.226-05:00So I'm late to the party, but I'd like to ...So I'm late to the party, but I'd like to point to <a href="http://gameswithwords.fieldofscience.com/2010/08/13-of-americans-cant-speak.html" rel="nofollow">my extended discussion of this study</a>.<br /><br />BTW testing in the place of work or study was probably done in order to get ahold of the low-attainment participants. It's very hard to recruit such participants to come to labs for studies. I don't see it being particularly problematic unless you think passive comprehension is location-dependent (and if so, I'd love to hear the theory!). So long as the room was quiet and without distractions, that seems fine.<br /><br />Put it this way, Jane Goodall studies Chimpanzees in the wild, not in a lab, and most people think that's ok.GamesWithWordshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15107067137612954306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-180805644455727212010-07-25T11:10:53.489-05:002010-07-25T11:10:53.489-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.costa rica investment opportunitieshttp://www.costaricaindex.com/costa-rica-investment/investment-costa-rica.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-1062275037755959122010-07-08T04:58:18.138-05:002010-07-08T04:58:18.138-05:00@ Donna
Pre-recorded sentences were played to the...@ Donna<br /><br />Pre-recorded sentences were played to them.<br /><br />For me, this may have its own drawbacks as opposed to reading. By reading, subjects (albeit only literate ones) can see the sentence as often as they like (even if only for a given amount of time) by re-reading it. By hearing the sentence (likely only once, or a standard number of times), subjects may be limited in their ability to comprehend it, especially less educated as compared to more educated subjects.<br /><br />Still very interesting data!Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-28064104932083150842010-07-08T03:53:08.615-05:002010-07-08T03:53:08.615-05:00I did not read the details of the study, but I am ...I did not read the details of the study, but I am wondering if the people taking the test had to read the sentence themselves or if it was read to them. This can make a big difference in the outcome of the test since there are many people that are functionally illiterate, and if they had to read it themselves, the problem could be a problem with reading comprehension and not actually with understanding the language.Donnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00516732096008229866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-6241787203335583302010-07-07T11:55:16.177-05:002010-07-07T11:55:16.177-05:00@Chris
That is odd that they weren't tested i...@Chris<br /><br />That is odd that they weren't tested in an actual controlled environment. Do we know of research whether that would affect performance so considerably? Presumably the participants were not distracted but more comfortable in their study-places and I would expect them to be less prone to errors from nervousness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-81483622511290071952010-07-07T10:11:08.386-05:002010-07-07T10:11:08.386-05:00I just saw this story myself and downloaded Dabrow...I just saw this story myself and downloaded Dabrowski's paper (from her <a href="http://www.cogling.group.shef.ac.uk/publications/More%20individual%20differences.pdf" rel="nofollow">Northumbia academic profile page</a> pdf). It turns out this was a picture matching paradigm. Subjects were given a passive sentence like "the soldier was hit by the sailor" and two pictures, one where the soldier is hitting a sailor and one where a sailor is hitting a soldier. they were asked which picture matched the meaning of the sentence.<br /><br />Happily, she includes some of her picture stimuli and some of here test sentences. But what confused me was the fact that "Participants were tested individually in a similar setting at the place were they worked or studied" (p 10). I find this odd and not in keeping with scientific standards.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09558846279006287148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-71340027651192480032010-07-06T22:54:45.247-05:002010-07-06T22:54:45.247-05:00Three wonders after skimming this article.
1. I w...Three wonders after skimming this article.<br /><br />1. I wonder at the possibility of the authors equating performance with competence. Each experiment, data elicitation session, you name it, is a form of a performance. What I was looking for was a bit about clarification answers in the protocol such as in the worn Communicative Competence story of working class boys clarifying their pronouns, thereby demonstrating that they, in fact, were in full command of competence but their initial performance mismatched the expectations of the researchers.The question here is, what is the performance code that some individuals are using for these tasks?<br /><br />2. I wonder about the clash of grammatical and statistical legitimacy of comparing one group with a 'normal' distribution (the perfect statistical group) to an abnormally distributed group (the perfect grammar group).<br /><br />3. I wonder if they've read Labov. <br /><br />"Finally, it is also possible that the participants in the less-educated group were less efficient language learners, and hence needed more experience to reach the same level of attainment." <br /><br />Like they didn't talk to anyone growing up? Maybe experience in formally taught elaborated code, maybe? A number of the quotes remind me of the kind of thing addressed by Labov's The Logic of Nonstandard English.The Stranded Prepositionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03108287418914073102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-68636755249711825792010-07-06T18:02:18.819-05:002010-07-06T18:02:18.819-05:00So this is somewhat old news, I heard about this b...So this is somewhat old news, I heard about this back in 2007ish. You give participants basic basic English sentences and then ask them questions about the sentences. This is a standard psycholinguistic task to keep attention focused on your stimuli. But you find that a not trivial number will make errors. <br /><br />E.g.: <br /><br />1. The soldier was hit by the sailor.<br /><br />a. Did the soldier hit someone? Y/N<br /><br /><br />From my understanding it boils down to native speakers not being perfect speakers, which is not an crazy statement. I'll try to find a citation.<br /><br />This also relates to a line of work concerning 'good-enough' language processing. We find that speakers aren't getting at every single fine detail concerning grammar and semantics but rather are grabbing the easiest or prima fascia information.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-60394074713145811792010-07-06T17:13:43.720-05:002010-07-06T17:13:43.720-05:00Well, I'm not feeling much clearer about this ...Well, I'm not feeling much clearer about this stuff since reading the article.Mr. Verbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04048931596146402872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-52185722570751865982010-07-06T16:26:19.058-05:002010-07-06T16:26:19.058-05:00Thanks, just downloaded it.Thanks, just downloaded it.Mr. Verbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04048931596146402872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-28478127298731584682010-07-06T16:21:36.968-05:002010-07-06T16:21:36.968-05:00The citation to the study is:
Lingua; Aug2010, Vo...The citation to the study is:<br /><br />Lingua; Aug2010, Vol. 120 Issue 8, p2080-2094Drew Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12537180168534039546noreply@blogger.com