tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post1007705323208969791..comments2024-02-25T20:07:56.114-06:00Comments on Mr. Verb: Epicene pronouns — now even crazierMr. Verbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04048931596146402872noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-52669837892374098612007-06-27T12:13:00.000-05:002007-06-27T12:13:00.000-05:00OK, let's take your last interpretation as the rig...OK, let's take your last interpretation as the right one. How easy would it be for well-meaning users of English to master this system in daily usage? I think a lot of people use a sort-of-generic 'he' sometimes without being aware of it. And I know I would struggle mightily with getting rid of the third plural for this purpose. <BR/><BR/>I wonder what her plans for that/which usage are? So, it's "easy", but "I've not quite worked out all the hitches."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-32862024309948648052007-06-27T11:25:00.000-05:002007-06-27T11:25:00.000-05:00Yeah, this definitely fits some generalizations fr...Yeah, this definitely fits some generalizations from typology, like the one from Greenberg you note, and I guess some pronoun systems are ridden with odd gaps (case, whatever). Third singular just seems kind of heavy already and to add a whole new (sub) paradigm there with yet new case patterns is odd. <BR/><BR/>Man, does everybody on the planet know Harley & Ritter cold, or what? <BR/><BR/>Good link on verification -- maybe I WILL post on this topic!Mr. Verbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04048931596146402872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-71779462554765118522007-06-27T11:18:00.000-05:002007-06-27T11:18:00.000-05:00This is a beautifully productive procrastination t...This is a beautifully productive procrastination thread so here are a few more things to add to the fire...<BR/><BR/>(1) Harley and Ritter's Language (2001:482-526) paper deals with pronoun structures but is a bit light on the gender issue. One relevant aspect is on p. 514 where they refer to some of Greenberg's Universals (for what they're worth) and state "A language never has more gender categories in non-singular numbers than in the singular" which is one accurate aspect of the proposed pronoun system...we should still take away their red pens though...<BR/><BR/>(2) In the complete spirit of procrastination, word verification , slang and many other things, I give you this link...<BR/><BR/>http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1763911Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-1927391496584070682007-06-27T11:00:00.000-05:002007-06-27T11:00:00.000-05:00Yes, this IS the right approach: Put the red pen d...Yes, this IS the right approach: Put the red pen down. Now. Hands in the air. Walk away slowly. Slowly.<BR/><BR/>But if the BRITS can use the plural here, surely that carries some weight with prescriptivists. Not. <BR/><BR/>Funny you mention the word verification — One more vowel and it'd be a perfect southern Mexican placename. I actually started this blog basically because a blog I read regularly uses it and had a weekly contest for a while asking people to send in and define the forms they got. May have to do a post on that … .Mr. Verbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04048931596146402872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-82998819440673685502007-06-27T10:31:00.000-05:002007-06-27T10:31:00.000-05:00The crazy thing about the 'Epicene Wars' in my exp...The crazy thing about the 'Epicene Wars' in my experience is the inability of English teachers to just let go of their prohibition against singular 'they' in writing. <BR/><BR/>I knew a member of an English department at one time who was extremely concerned about sexist language and really wanted an epicene pronoun but simply admitted that it was beyond her abilities to not correct singular they.<BR/><BR/>For all who want an epcience pronoun in English I challenge you to just put your red pens away and/or your prescriptive judgments against singular they.<BR/><BR/>On a completely random note... the 'word verification' for this post was 'tolnxcio' which looks like Salish to me...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-44169969496145267622007-06-27T10:30:00.000-05:002007-06-27T10:30:00.000-05:00As I understand the proposal (not that it makes mu...As I understand the proposal (not that it makes much sense to me either), <I>he/him/his</I> and <I>she/her/her(s)</I> would remain in the pronominal paradigm, but <I>hu</I> would take over whenever a gender-neutral pronoun was needed (regardless of case distinction). Here's a genitive example from DeLuna's interview in the <A HREF="http://www.english.uiuc.edu/-people-/faculty/debaron/402/hu.html" REL="nofollow">Chronicle of Higher Education</A>: "The liar is hu own worst enemy."Ben Zimmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02927962158447853691noreply@blogger.com