tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post4099442441375415343..comments2024-02-25T20:07:56.114-06:00Comments on Mr. Verb: Etruscan immigration to Italy: What's language got to do with it?Mr. Verbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04048931596146402872noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-85147735482460566832007-06-11T07:12:00.000-05:002007-06-11T07:12:00.000-05:00I wasn't so much challenging the eastern origins o...I wasn't so much challenging the eastern origins of the Etruscans in particular, and certainly not the connection to eastern peoples. <BR/><BR/>First, the article doesn't really try to present compelling evidence for immigrant origins (thus the jab about how they don't exclude a pre-IE origin. (As I said then, I'm hardly pushing that view, just pointing out that they don't make the clear case against it.) A connection between a language/culture found at point A and another at point B has plenty of explanations besides that people from A moved to B.<BR/><BR/>More seriously, the evidence just seems too thin to draw the particular, highly specific conclusions that the article draws. The point I picked on was the relationship between Lemnian and Etruscan. Let's assume that the Etruscans and Lemnians came from the east. The article suggests that this implies that one community is the 'parent' of the other, that folks moved west to Lemnos and from there to Italy or from the east to Italy to Lemnos. Surely it's just as possible that they shared a parent culture (say, in Anatolia) but moved to Italy and Lemnos independently.<BR/><BR/>So, I *was* raising a question about whether Herodotus got it entirely right. But if I recall, the article itself starts from that position and it seems prudent to be somewhat cautious in accepting assertions like this from ancient sources, even the best ones.Mr. Verbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04048931596146402872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-70157171640967891392007-06-10T21:45:00.000-05:002007-06-10T21:45:00.000-05:00You have to understand that eastern Etruscan origi...You have to understand that eastern Etruscan origins are suggested by a package of other things like:<BR/><BR/>1. Herodotus' claims that Etruscans were from Lydia<BR/>2. The eastern origins of the alphabet which appear to be a derivative of the alphabet used by Euobaean Greeks.<BR/>3. Religious rituals such as haruspicy (ie. finding omens in sheep livers) which point strictly to Anatolia who obtained their traditions from Babylonians to the east where livers made of clay for the purposes of divination can be found just like those in Etruria.<BR/>4. Their close ties with Phoenicians in sea trade, the Phoenicians being a Semitic people also from the east.<BR/><BR/>There are many, many connections to be made showing eastern origins. So without understanding the full context of the topic, it's not right to just dismiss <I>everything</I>.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I think that your skepticism of Hollywoodizing history is valid. Whenever Etruscans show up in the New York Times, CNN, FoxNews, ABC, or whatever other big advertising media, you can be sure that there will be a quite a few inaccuracies by those with no expertise in the subject just to sell their wares. To that I say "Cut out the middleman".Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33159158.post-39887657245692836822007-04-03T08:56:00.000-05:002007-04-03T08:56:00.000-05:00Hey, wasn't somebody going to follow up on that "E...Hey, wasn't somebody going to follow up on that "English as the fourth branch of Germanic" stuff?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com